INTERVIEW WITH BABA ALADURA L. A. ONYELEONU - THE PRELATE OF ESOCS CHURCH (March 18, 2012) ------ Being the eight Baba Aladura of the Holy Order, what qualities or attributes will you say other Baba Aladuras had in common which are still working for the church 86 years after it was established? The qualities the former Baba Aladuras have in common, I would say, are their uncommon passion for prayer and total devotion to God. They committed themselves to intercede for the church of God, the Eternal Sacred Order of the Cherubim and Seraphim and humanity in general. This has actually helped the church and the Nigeria nation to grow from strength to strength despite other daunting challenges. They have strong faith in God which is why their mission services extended from Nigeria to other parts of the world. They were doing nothing other than prayer. They would remain in-door all day long praying. They moved round the country particularly the Eastern parts of the country to win more souls for God and any state they arrive, they were given warm reception by governors, and other respected individuals. When did you join the church and who among the seven Baba Aladuras will you say you worked closely with? I joined the Holy Order in November 18, 1949. By 1958, I was appointed member of the Board to represent the Eastern region. I worked under the seven former leaders but closely with Baba Aladura Samuel Adewumi, Baba J.S Olugbusi, Baba G.A Ogunyadi, Baba G.I.M Otubu, and Baba E. Olu Okeyemi. They were all ordained as the Baba Aladura of the Holy Sacred Order. Going by a rumour making the round, is it true that Captain Abiodun co-founded the Holy Order with Baba Orimolade in 1925? As I can understand when I joined the church, there were so many pamphlets where her name appeared as one of the sick persons who were healed by Baba Moses Orimolade of blessed memory. The paper made us to understand the nature of her disease. But, we can better described it as when someone is in a trance. A person can remain there two weeks, one month or more without food, or any other thing. This thing fell on her and in Lagos, Nigeria in the olden days, there were no churches as we have them today. The family, of course, did not know what was worrying their daughter until they learnt that there was a man called Orimolade in Lagos. That was how they brought her to Orimolade for spiritual intervention. Then Orimolade, being a spiritualist, had known what was worrying her. Accordingly, Baba Orimolade prayed for Captain Abiodun Emmanuel, because her husband answers Emmanuel. She has not marry when the whole thing happened. This was how Captain Abiodun was healed of her 'disease'. So, it is very funny when people are using the word – co-founder to describe her. It is a very common understanding that when one is sick, and another has been a spiritualist who later prayed for the sick person, that they would then become co-owner. No, it is unfounded. Co-owner of the property, is that not what they are saying? Even if I was not in Lagos by then, I believe that with common sense, apart from what we have on documents, a tenant can never be co-owner with the landlord or the owner of the property. Then, is it true that she was expelled by Baba Orimolade in 1930? Actually when there were too much confusion about the whole thing, Baba Orimolade took her to Tinubu Police Station to deny her. And that eventually led to her exit. Notably, the C&S churches were all over the land in the 40s through to 80s, but now, pentecostal churches seem to have taken over. What, in your view, do you think is responsible for this? Whether you regard them as pentecostal or whatever, I believe the people of the pentecostal movement, the C&S churches, Ayo ni o and all other churches are serving and worshiping the same God. They work hand in hand. We may differ in terms of worship and practice, I believe there is no difference. C&S believes in the working of the holy spirit and this is where the foundation of the church is laid. To say that the pentecostal church is spreading more than the C&S could be unfounded in the sense that the Order founded by St. Moses Orimolade is the first spiritual church and the Pentecost has to do with the presence of the holy spirit. If we are the first to have the spirit in us, then, it is not possible for those who got it after to outrun us. We have the first miracle, they learn from us, they copy from us. Aside that, we all belong to the Christian Council of Nigeria (CCN) and Organisation of Africa Instituted Churches (OAIC). So, there is no confusion about the spread of any church. The essence of Christianity is to win more souls for the kingdom of God and this can be achieved on any platform. Needless then, to be saying one is expanding while the other is not. We are all serving God and He has a way of dealing with his people. Yours may be different from mine, but ultimately, they are all for the edification of the body of Christ. Some are of the opinion that the pentecostal churches have commercialised religion. What is your take on this? Well, I think they spend more money than other churches and I think that is not the basis of Christianity. Move around the town and you see mansions of different sizes and shapes where people worship God. I think the weightier matter should be the spiritual well being of the church. The word of God says 'build the church', and we are the church and not the building. His word says 'edify the church' – the body of Christ that they may be rich in the things of the spirit and not in canal. Another thing about this issue is that cathedral of all sorts are springing up. There are founders, bishops, pastors and all that. Some are even having the pastor's family members constituting board members and as such, there is always succession battle. Exactly, they have succeeded in turning religion to business venture. The founder of the C&S strictly warned that prayer is a free gift from God, and this has been our watch word. Our past leaders prayed freely, for freely it was received and so it shall be given. The Bible says whatever man soweth, he shall reap. If one commercialises, pray and collect money, whatever man soweth, he shall reap. God is the only one who can judge because He is the ultimate one. Miracle, do you still believe in it, especially when compare with the days of old? God the same yesterday, today and shall remain the same forever. God does not change. He has given us victory and he has not taken it away. It is still with us. To this end, some section of the society are still holding on to the perception that C&S churches are being fetish. Is this true? If no, what then are you doing to put the record straight? What outsiders know or see about white garment churches, not us alone, is secret. Their believe is that we worship mammon. But in actual fact, is this true? From where they have gone to confirm that? It is the figment of the imagination of those who concur such statement. They are right out there saying what they do not know. They are outsiders. The name of the Eternal Sacred Order of the Cherubim and Seraphim church, from origin is a mystery. The church came from heaven. The Bible says the secret of the Lord belongs to them that knows Him. Heavenly things cannot be explained by people of the world. The book of Judges, Chapter 13 attests to this fact. Because they are men of the world, they cannot understand the meaning of Cherubim and Seraphim. So, whatever practice the C&S does is a secret to them and it will remain a mystery. And they cannot understand. And while they remain to say is secret, the church is growing, multiplying daily all over the world. Let them continue to say what we are doing is fetish while we are growing. And God will continue to bless us. Look at what Jesus Christ did to that blind man who went to Him to regain his sight. Jesus spit on the ground, mixed it and used it to rub the eyes of the blind man. Thereafter, he indeed regained his sight. Will they say that is fetish too? Such statements are unfounded. They are mischievous. The Bible says the foolishness of God is wiser than men. And He uses the simple things of this world to confound the wise men. God has been doing wonders and He will do more. So, people should believe more in God through his word – the Holy Bible and not what people talked about. There are so many C&S churches, is Mount Zion the headquarters? Yes, Mount Zion is the Headquarters. How will you describe the relationship that exists between: the C&S and the likes of Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist; and other C&S churches such as Ayo ni o, Morning Star, Holy Flock, Church of the Lord, Zion etc? Oh, very very cordial. Like I said earlier, we all belong to the CCN and OAIC. Do not forget we are all part of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN). We attend interdenominational services whenever and wherever it is called. So, there is no basis for any unhealthy rivalry. Eternal Order under the banner of OAIC has a lot of churches under it with a distinct practice and doctrine. The same thing goes for other churches. There is no reason why we would not co-habit peacefully. Being the first Igbo man to become the Baba Aladura, how do you feel? Oh, great I would say. It is not easy to have come this far. It has been the grace of God. God has been so faithful. And we are greatful to him. Why the choice of the title – Baba Aladura? There is no any big deal about that. The name which simply connotes a “Praying Father”, was adopted as the official name of that office. It signifies prayer. The occupier is the father of all and his duty is praying both in season and out of season. Nigeria, no doubt, is in a critical moment. What message will you give to those in government and those aspiring to form government? My message to them all is to fear God. In whatever they do, the fear of God should be paramount in their heart. Whatever we do outside God, will always be in crisis. Nigerian leaders are too far from God. They believe they can do things their own way without putting God first. They have neglected the most important thing which is why there have been bloodshed, killings in the northern parts of the country and all sorts of other societal vices. We cannot afford to continue like this. We need to trace our steps back to God, for He is the essence of our being. ★ BY TUNDE OSOWE - INTERVIEWER CORRESPONDENT WORLDSTAGE BROUGHT TO YOU BY HON PRINCE SERAPH MISSION CORRESPONDENT VOICE OF ZION NEWS CREW

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